I was just looking
through www.horses.co.uk which is usually a gd site, but
they have new piccies up and this 1 is rly rly rly
making me angry! Not only is the woman not wearing a hat
but she is SMOKING!!
I totally agree, how
irresponsible! I think anyone that has common sense
would know the consequences of riding and smoking and
would not take the risk! I think its silly! As for the
hat business, well if people want to risk their own
lives by riding without a hat, then let them get on with
it! At the end of the day the only person that could be
killed or serverly injured is that
person!
4 the rpy, I think ppl
like that r completely irresponsible and stupid, there
is a picture of a boy about 14yrs old riding without a
hat! he has obv learnt from the adults on that yard! The
woman also got on Nick;s horse who she didnt know
without a hat which is completely daft!
Indead- the riding
position is like she is on an armchair! she doesnt look
at all bothered hauling the horse's mouth like that
either....If I were that horse getting smoke in2 me,
hauled at, ridden like that I would just throw her off
and trample her Fag out lol!!
I swear some ppl
think that they r indestructable!
Come on, why are you all
getting so worked up? if you've looked at the site as a
whole then why be surprised. It's hardly a site to visit
time after time as one of your favorites. Its just a
personal tribute to himself!
Why?.... I don't
know. Why would anyone want a website about themself
with apparantly no point to it what so
ever!
Lol wot does that woman
think she is doing??? She is riding with her legs
forward, slumped, hauling her horse about, smoking,
without a hat. Its really really terrible!!!!!
Re: I cant
believe this site! No score for this post
April
28 2002, 9:56 PM
er have to say i would
die of embarasment if the world saw me riding like that.
I just bet that the horse's muscles underneath the back
of the saddle are sore from that position and whats with
the routine use of the
grackle?!
If you ride like a sack
of potatoes, why post a picture on the internet! I think
this site sets a really bad example, with the lack of
hats (and riding ability!) and smoking on horseback etc.
Poor horses!
It's a site set up by a
guy who owns horses so he can show his pics to other
people. No different really i guess to my own bravenet
photo center!
It's not like she's trying to set
an impression is it? If she was in a magazine or
something then yeah, get worked up, but she's
not!
I'm sure we've all been caught in less than
flattering positions before now! As for the smoking,
well, no, it's not sensible, and it doesn't set a good
example. But I bet I'm not the only person who posts on
here who does!!
You're right, baby! I've
changed my mind! It's not as though these people are
claiming to be experts, or trying to set an example.
They're just riding their horses. It's obviously
irresponsible to right without a hat, or to smoke while
riding, but we all do silly things.
I agree- Im not saying
they should b out 2 set an example- but the woman riding
actually owns that yard as far as I can tell, and there
is a young boy riding with no hat in it either so she
obv isnt setting a gd example all round! I dont think
that she was just caught out in this photo, because in
other pics she is riding the same way. Ok so we all
make mistakes Im not critising 4 that but 2 smoke on a
horse isnt acceptable! I know ppl who ride and smoke but
they dont combine the 2, they wouldnt endanger the horse
like that! Ne way, I feel sorry 4 the horse being
hauled around like that, and as 4 the woman...I hope she
is just caught off guard in the pic.
Re: I cant
believe this site! No score for this post
April
30 2002, 10:51 PM
l know a doctor thats
rides all the time without a hat,but she doesnt smoke
and thinks smoking is a health risk!! lol.l smoke,and
whilst riding,l doubt very much my horse will get
smokers cough whilst being ridden by a smoker in the
fresh air,l dont smoke in his face!! not a very gud
example l know,plus ridin position may not b gr8,but
maybe comfy to her,l hope l look better in my position
when l ride,but lm not a text book rider,l ride cos l
enjoy it and am competent at it,and my horse is happy
which is the main thing!!
No I don't
agree with you Kat No score for this post
April
30 2002, 11:21 PM
A. It is not a cigarette
in her mouth, it is a lollipop. B. The lady in
question is "enjoying herself" not proving herself to be
the best rider in the world, and let's face it, riding
is supposed to be "fun". c. Who really cares whether
these people can ride, it is their website, they can
post what they like and they do not have to be
responsible human beings.
Although you may not
agree with their way of riding or attitude, each to
their own, it doesn't make them bad people...
Oh,
and yes I often smoke whilst riding, it doesn't affect
my horses, I have never burn't a horse or had a vet say
that my horses have suffered. I never smoke around the
yard so I don't endanger anyone in any way.
It is
a free world and everyone is entitled to ride badly if
they wish and they also DO NOT have to follow the rules
(like wearing a hat) if they don't want to. How ever
much a bad example they are setting, please remember
they are very few and far between.
No I don't
agree with you Kat No score for this post
April
30 2002, 11:23 PM
A. It is not a cigarette
in her mouth, it is a lollipop. B. The lady in
question is "enjoying herself" not proving herself to be
the best rider in the world, and let's face it, riding
is supposed to be "fun". c. Who really cares whether
these people can ride, it is their website, they can
post what they like and they do not have to be
responsible human beings.
Although you may not
agree with their way of riding or attitude, each to
their own, it doesn't make them bad people...
Oh,
and yes I often smoke whilst riding, it doesn't affect
my horses, I have never burn't a horse or had a vet say
that my horses have suffered. I never smoke around the
yard so I don't endanger anyone in any way.
It is
a free world and everyone is entitled to ride badly if
they wish and they also DO NOT have to follow the rules
(like wearing a hat) if they don't want to. How ever
much a bad example they are setting, please remember
they are very few and far between.
Re: Re: I
cant believe this site! No score for this post
May 1
2002, 12:20 AM
I was quite pround of
being able to make a roll up whilst riding, taught me
one handed riding as well as one handed rolling up! My
horse was always fascinated with tobacco and did his
best to chew a bit too - I certainly don't see a problem
in it - wouldn't smoke around a yard of course but not a
lot of harm can come from a nice hack and a fag. ps non
smoker these days as the new horse definitely requires
the two-handed
approach!!
I don't give
a Stuff about her not wearing a hat No score for this
post
May 1
2002, 12:30 AM
if she falls off - she's
old enough to know better.
Any dumb schmuck who
smokes on a horse though deserves to fall off. I guess
if she lands on her head it won't do significant damage
as she aint no brain!
Many years ago I worked in
a race yard and a jockey exercising out dropped a
cigarette butt which fell under the pommel (which he
didn't realise) and caused an horrific burn on the
horses back. I've since seen another 5 riders drop cigs
on their horses though none with such a bad injury.
As for the guy who reckoned he could roll
cigarettes with one hand whilst riding - suggest he too
may prefer to ride without a hat and preferably also
without a horse - selfish
pig!
Re: I
don't give a Stuff about her not wearing a
hat No score for this post
May 1
2002, 8:56 AM
whats the fuss
about - agreed not wearing a hat is stupid, but I bet we
HAVE all done it, at one time or another. I don't agree
with smoking on a horse, but who are we to preach. The
horses look in good condition and relaxed, and I bet we
don't all ride correctly all the time.. As someone has
already said. Riding should be fun. We shouldn't have to
worry about being slagged off by people just because we
don't comform to the expectations.
....I think
calling someone a selfish pig on a message board, shows
far less correctness than smoking a fag, or wearing no
hat on a horse!! Come on, ease up
a bit, I havent looked a the offending site, but I'm
sure that there a plenty that are MORE
offensive/cruel/ignorant/ if you look for them, and it
wasnt an instruction manual was it? Why dont you visit ILPH, HAPPA IFAW
or similar, open your eyes and maybe contribute to
changing some of the atrocities!
As someone
else here said, dont judge others unless you yourself
are faultless....and if you really are faultless....what
are you doing on this earth?
...just looked at
this site to see what all the fuss is about. Just what
exactly are you concerned about, is it the horses
welfare or base snobbery? OK it mightnt be "correct" in
your eyes but no one seems to be suffering...the horses
are immaculate, and it is on the beach for
crissakes....
The
reason why the rider is selfish No score for
this post
May 1
2002, 9:41 AM
is that there is
no thought or consideration for the horse - and o.k.
some people mutilate and beat horses in other ways - and
I don't need to look at a web site to know that as I
have from time to time cared for screwed up and damanged
recovering horses on behalf of the ILPH.
Cigarette
ends do drop off cigarettes and personally I don't give
a stuff about the hat or the attire - I've NEVER been a
riding snob but smoking on the back of a horse shows no
awareness at all about possible consequences and risks
to the horse.
If a rider wants a cig they just
have to get off the horse! If they don't they are
ignorant and selfish.
you all are. The
horses look nice, well balanced and happy. The riders
are having fun riding along the beach on a relaxing
hack. I've been riding for nearly 60 years (yes, I'm
very old!!), and when I learnt aged 5 we were just slung
on board with a pressed cardboard hat which hardly
fitted, and taken out on the lead rein until we could
sit safely at canter, after which it was up to us to
stay on. I learnt by scrambling on and off ponies and
horses of all sorts, riding bareback (often without a
hat), and generally "playing" with ponies, as well as
being taught correct seat, leg aids, etc. You can have
all the safety equipment in the world but it doesn't
give you a safe seat. And it isn't always important to
be sitting correctly with the horse in an outline, and
so on. Riding is about having fun, for rider and horse.
So get off your high horses, you lot, and chill!
Though Gail I am a
novice compared to you with as I only have 48 years
riding experience. My first experiences were hatless
rounding sheep on the farm with ponies. However I've
grown up now, got experience and knowledge and awareness
of risks and hazards.
It may well be judgemental to say
what you think regarding smoking on horses but I'll
stand by what I said. In the same way I use my judgement
(born from experience, knowledge and understanding) and
tell customers how they should manage other activities
with their horses. Indeed I'm paid for this.
Got to say
I've also ticked off people (young and really really
old!) out hunting with cigs hanging out whilst on
horseback. I would NEVER let anyone ride a horse of mine
whilst smoking.
I don't care what they do off the
horse but as far as I'm concerned we old g**s should
encourage good behaviour and practice and when aware of
a possibility of doing something that can injure or do
harm to a horse ALWAYS use our judgement and get off the
fence and say what we think and know.
Re:
What a judgemental lot.... No score for this post
May 1
2002, 11:12 AM
OK, am I looking
at like totally different pictures to you lot cos in the
ones I have looked at they are most definately in a sand
school not on the beach!! In fact, if you go to the main
page for that set of photos it tells you all about how
they have gone to visit a friend at her yard!
I agree with you
Gail ...Ive been around since those days too!
And regards
the smoking thing, I think you'll find that unless you
stub a cigarette purposely out on a horses coat, the ash
or dropped cigarette which might fall in a crisis
wouldnt actually burn through the coat to cause any
damage! And you can do that as easily from the
ground...I havent tested this though of course! And as
for the smoking out hunting.....no dont get me on the
hunting thing....character assassination and all that!
I still think its the beach, but
if it is a school what point are you making?
...really James do
you teach people to call each other selfish pig? I dont
think that is adult or good behaviour and is not setting
a good example! I agree us older and life experienced
riders ought to speak out if we see danger, ingorance or
folly, but theres no need to take life so seriously is
there? Go for a gallop and lighten up!
Yes I know that
the guy's website is available for public opinion but I
would be absolutely gutted to read this thread if it was
my site you were all talking about.
Can you lot
on here ever stop picking on each other and
outsiders?
I've read through
this post and I have to admit, there are a few dodgy
riding positions and I have to wonder about the safety
of riding with either a cigarette or lollipop in your
mouth. but I wonder if there is some jealousy amongst
some posters here as the yard and facilities look
fantastic and so do the horses. Quite jealous myself
actually
I
cannot quite believe some people... No score for
this post
May 1
2002, 3:37 PM
James,
I am
absolutely appalled by your attitude. Who on earth do
you think you are to call people selfish and
ignorant????
And also why do you not READ the
threads prior to your disgusting replies and
accusations.
Sue is a woman's name, and SHE
posted the message about rolling a fag whilst riding.
I smoke
whilst I ride. I am neither ignorant or selfish.
I would
suggest you are the ignorant one, posting in such an
offensive manner. With regards to hunting I may have an
opinion on that, but I don't come on here calling you
ignorant and selfish do I?
Who the hell do you think you
are???? I suggest you go out and get a life.
Re: I
cannot quite believe some people... No score for
this post
May 1
2002, 4:28 PM
Hi Hen, No point, was just wondering if I
was looking at the same photos as a few people had
mentioned the beach but the ones i was looking at were
in a school! Thinking out loud -
or thinking in type!
cant comment on
the pics coz havent seen em but from experience i think
that some riders can be ignorant and stupid by smoking
and riding. ok i dont smoke but i remember years ago
when i kept my horse on a diy yard i used to ride with a
couple of other girls one of them smoked all the way
round the hack she would smoke on really hot summers
days and leave her burning fag in the dried out bushes,
if things ever got hairy when she was smoking she
wouldnt let go of the fag irrespective of her huge 17hh
tb prancing around the road or path ohhhh noooo fag
stayed put, made me cringe and yes i thort she was
ignorant and selfish waht if she had burnt the horse?
with kat. I think
the position looks very uncomfortable for the horse and
the smoking is dangerous and looks sloppy. i dont think
its a lolly pop coz its to thick to be. I e-mailed nick
to see if we can get any feed back! As with all the
heated exchanges, everyone has a right to their own
opinion and we would all do well to remember that.
This woman's
position is NOT good in my opinion, she is
smoking(definatley not sucking a lollipop in my
opinion)and she is not wearing a hat......BUT....the
horses look perfectly happy to me.
Ok I was just
saying my opinion I didnt expect 2 b called
judgemental!
Ok so no Im not perfect but I
certainly never go round smoking on a horse (I never
smoke although Im 15 and have more sense than 2 waste my
life on fags but thats another sotry altogether) and 2
me the horses look immaculate but I never judge a
horse's happiness on how clean it is- ok so its looked
after physcially but wot about mentally? they might have
not been out in a field in yrs if they r immaculate. I
aint saying those horses havent been turned out I dont
know that but it could b the case.
As 4 her
riding position- yes she is just having fun but wot
about her horse? im sure the poor thing will have sore
muslces after that riding position! Riding is supposed 2
b fun but if she is riding horses that r obv either
strong or she just likes grackles, then she should at
least attempt 2 sit up straight. The piccie of the woman
jumping her grey horse is awful she is hauling right
back on its mouth and looks more busy posing 4 the
cammera.
The horses dont all look happy.
Just my
opinion so plz I dont wanna b called
judgemental!!!!!!
It looks to me
like these people are more interested in try to look
cool. It's definitely a cigarette, too thick to be a
lollipop.
I can't believe the riding position,
her stirrups are far too short, and legs are too far
forward. Her hands are way too high above the horse's
neck. I'm only a novice but I can see these things quite
obviously. I hate to think what an instructor might
say.
Had
a look through the rest of the site and it all seems
pretty much the same. There are some photos of this man
with a young child on the horse at the same time and
they are still not wearing hats. And they are
bare-back!!! It's much easier to fall off when you are
bare-back.
Sorry darlin' but
your last message IS even more judgemental! Think about
it, would you like someone to critiscise what you wear,
what you ride like, how you speak, what colour you are,
just because they dont agree? And how on earth can you make
comments on the mental well being of the horses, that
really is reading too much into things!! Be careful that you dont grow up
with blinkers on, theres a lot of different types of
people out there and you will soon find that you have to
try to get on with ALL of them.
Look- plz- I didnt
judge them because they r dressed a certain way or
because of ne thing apart from the fact 2 me it looks
like she is putting her horse's welfare at stake by: 1) riding like a sack of potatoes 2) hauling on her horse's mouth 3) having a fag in her gob which
could injure either her or the horse if she should
fall 4) wearing no hat
AND I didnt
say that her horse's mental state was questionable, I
said that it MIGHT b the case that her horse's havent
been turned out but I also said that would b assuming
and reading 2 deep in2 it, I was just backing up my
point that i dont judge a horse on how clean it is.
Hen- I rly
didnt like u implying that I was as bad as some of the,
say racist, ppl out there and go round juding ppl on
things the cant help because that ISNT wot Im saying,
she can help riding that way perfectly well, she just
seems 2 have decided not 2.
Ok so the woman looks 2 b enjoying
herself but there r 2 creatures involved in riding- a
human AND a horse so the happiness of BOTH needs 2 b
accounted 4. Thats all Im saying and NO I dont go round
judging ppl Ihave a right 2 my opinion and so do u but I
am NOT!!!! slaggin her off 4 the way she dresses, how
she speaks or the colour she is so plz dont imply I
am!
I agree with
James, it makes me so mad when i see anyone doing
anything like this (riding without hat, smoking whilst
riding).+ you can not say you are not selfish by smoking
whilst riding- You do not even deserve to have a horse.
Yes i am being judgemental, and there is no way you can
say doing these things are right.
ok ok ok god
people, calm down!! I mean, do you enjoy slagging other
people off, I mean you do it an awful lot on this site,
just because you dont agree blah blah blah.......deary
me!
Re: I
cant believe this site! Average Score 5.0 (2 people)
May 2
2002, 10:12 PM
What a fantastic
amount of hostility! I haven't seen so much
self-righteous indignation in years, but then maybe that
is because I have extracted myself from childish groups
of petty individuals who have nothing better to do on
the Net than bitch about other people and find fault in
everything other than themselves (of course, I doubt
that there are any here).
Maybe I overreact ...
I speak in
general as I am answering the negativity of this thread
from a few simple minded, even blinkered people (I would
imaging) and NOT those people who are making balanced
comments. I recognise that there are a significant
number of normal (and I am sure very nice) and
reasonable people (who I probably would like in real
life) here and I don't wish to implicate you in my rant.
Please feel free to include or exclude yourself from my
criticism as you see fit. I appreciate the balanced side
of the discussion. The rest of you, I hope your are old
enough to understand!
First, thanks to the person who
chose to notify me of this public attack on me, my site
and some of the people I have taken pictures of. I
suppose it is typical of the "Horsey" stereotype to rant
and bitch about people they don't know and haven't me,
are ill informed, and do so behind their back. Maybe I
would have enjoyed to take part in a balanced well
articulated discussion. Its a shame, the debate is
actually very interesting - I don't think there are
right or wrong answers, the pity is that the expression
is less impressive, but then I guess they let anyone
have a computer these days.
In the early
days of the Internet '96, I decided to learn about the
web and its multimedia possibilities, and created a
small site with the few pictures I had scanned in. Aside
from the technical challenge it was a form of
expressionism and creativity. (Which even now people in
this group, in their own way, are exhibiting albeit in a
disappointingly negative way.)
I was
surprised by the growth in traffic to the site and the
positive feedback I was getting. Since then, my site has
become a passion of mine. I find it hard to explain why
other than it is a progressive desire fuelled by my love
of my horses and wanting to capture it as a tribute to
the horses that have graced me with their tollerance,
for myself and others who are interested. Over time the
testaments of interest an gratitude have been
overwhelming. They come from people who miss their
horses while at university, to people who have lost
touch with horses, to people who are no longer able to
experience the day to day pleasures of horses, to people
who ride every day but miss their horses when at work,
to people who are interested in equine diversity outside
their day to day regime. To the disabled, some of which
are even blind and merely enjoy (for reasons that can
only be completely clear to them) reading the stories I
have had time to write. To kids who want to use the
pictures as they play sim horse games on the Internet.
To people who lead a narrow existence with their horses
and never thought to expand their or their horses mind.
It is a colourful chronicle of all those things good and
bad, happy and sad I have been lucky enough to
experience. Having a site like this is a rewarding
experience all of its own.
Be rest assured, when it is time to
put Bert down (http://www.horses.co.uk/horses/bertie/badnews.html)
that along with everything, however painful it is for
me, and tasteless it may appear to be, I will capture
the moment and publish it ... this can be a debate for
another thread, for myself it is a hard question with
many sides ... I am sure there are a few here who could
make a snap judgmental decision on its merits. Over the
years, there are a number of events I didn't capture,
good and bad, and I regret the loss bitterly ... of
memories and experiences lost and almost forgotten.
This site
means so much to me personally and so many 1000's of
people around the world. Most of them don't find reason
to criticise and in fact are grateful that someone
bothers to try and capture the pleasures and variety of
horses for others to share ... but you* only see it as
an extrovert attempt to publicise oneself. (*You know
who you are.)
The Horses site does almost a
million pages a month (without the aid of this group,
although I would like a pound for each impression!). It
has about 30,000 unique visitors a month and people
still visit my site who first visited 5 years ago. I
often feel guilty when I get the occasional email asking
what happened to Bert or why there are no new
pictures.
Just like people who don't
understand horses and can't understand our passion for
them, I can never properly explain the meaning of this
site to you. For it is a sensation that motivates me,
and a far from selfish one at that, and hard to explain.
It says a lot about you as a person in how you choose to
interpret it. My sorrow for you* (see above).
My site is
not a statement of a certain demographic's beliefs of
the right way to ride. I do not dictate to people how
they should ride. This site does not purport to be the
de facto standard for the "acceptable" way ride. It
merely captures what I see, generally people at one and
sharing with their horses, and tries to make it pleasant
for other people to enjoy. It is a view of life.
I don't
advocate that it is right to let your horses graze loose
at the side of the road, which I do (although I don't
trust them enough to let them do it unsupervised). http://www.horses.co.uk/horses/bertiengeorge/
Admittedly it's not a very main road ... but that would
be foolish? Sometimes they test me, but I doubt they
will run off, if they do, remember, make a noise like a
carrot! But its part of developing me and my horses and
the relationships there in. I do it because it appears I
can and that to a degree, I think that I have most
issues covered. In all the apparent irresponsibility, I
see another side.
What's good for the rider? If you
want to be truly safe, don't get on a horse ... better
still don't get born (This too has other merits for
some.). What's good for the horse
... if you ask they might say leave me alone to roam the
open plains (Debate for new thread.).
Pat Parelli
(http://www.parelli.com//) ...
has a view of horses which is very different from that
of the established masses ... I can't say I will abandon
my ways to follow his ... but he has a point about the
blind traditionalism of established "normal". To be
honest, I think his criticisms are justified, for many
of my few successes stem from a form of interaction that
has an implicit reflection of his philosophy ... the
difference is he understands and lives by it ... for me
its just a partial accident of day to day playing with
my horses. (Debate for new thread.) P.S. And he doesn't
wear a hat (well a cowboy hat he does sometime ...) and
he jumps cross country bareback in a lead rope ... don't
try this at home kids! ... but I might. Myself I think
of myself as an average rider who loves his horses, I
often feel sorry for forcing them to endure my clumsy
hands ... but each day I try my best to do my best by
them. Every now and again they tell me off, but mostly
they appear happy with their lot in life. And in so
doing make me a very happy subject of theirs.
For those
who look to find fault in others and express it so
bitterly ... I wonder what faults you yourselves have.
Just by the nature of your tone, I wouldn't let you even
touch my horses however much you have or think you have
achieved. Image on a horse is not everything. Apart from
the fact that I happen to know that the person you
discuss is highly capable on a horse. Her horses are
happy ... a priority that is number one, the fact that
she wears no hat or chooses to smoke is a personal
choice. And not a statement of what one should do. I
know her to be very knowledgeable about horses and her
successes qualify my respect for her. I would gladly
give up my horses the burden of having to have me ride
them to have someone of her calibre ride them. The
reality is that the rider you so criticise is in the top
40 best show jumpers in the UK. She chooses not to ride
a hat when she doesn't have to, probably because she
doesn't need to. It is her choice. It is not a
statement!
Having spoken to her with regards to
he sloppy riding, she has suggested that anyone who
feels they are so qualified to express an opinion in
such a questionable fashion on this matter should send
me a picture for her to comment on. The point on the
grackle: "The grackle nose band only stops the horse
opening its mouth, there is nothing severe about it and
is more of a fashionable thing unless its on so tight
the horse cannot move." which as you can see in the
picture (for those who can tell a lollypop from a
cigarette) it is not. Her final contribution on this
topic is "I believe horses should have their own free
spirit and not do serious work every day which is why
they win...".
That day at her yard was the most
fun I have had for a while, the day out was fun for me
and my horses, and I have to say that G & R enjoyed
the attentions of the kids ... but especially the nice
sand school for rolling it ... It was a fun and relaxed
day out, with friends, playing with the horses ... those
who can't see it for that ... well ... maybe you should
open your eyes.
For those of you who bother to read
the site will see that I have had the privilege to ride
with fine equestriennes such as "Denis Morand" -
Badminton Event rider, John Whitaker and even Lucinda Green. All
of which have a fantastic relationships and attitudes to
their horses. I dare not speak on their behalf, however
I feel there is a big difference between how there are
in a natural state with their horses and that in which
the have to be perceived as doing the "Right thing." for
the "Good of the public". Does that make them bad people
... doing it wrong? Or just people who enjoy their sport
and pleasure doing it their way?
The fact
that I choose to show the world the things I see, many
of which I (and others) find interesting is business for
me and those people who get pleasure in the pictures.
The site is partial recollection of the world, don't
jump down my throat because you don't agree with what
you see. Think of it as art ... to many its a captured
moment of a normal and happy interaction with horse and
rider ... to some its a picture of a woman riding badly
without a hat and a fag in her mouth. In as much as art
is concerned, I love the many pictures horses. I never
tire of them. Bert's face tells 1000 stories and each
one if fascinating (Feed me, I am hungry, More food are
a few of his favorites).
With regard for hats, there are
three sorts of people who don't wear a hat.
1) Those who
don't know better. 2) Those who
understand the risk and choose not to. 3) Those who have never been
indoctrinated and given it a second thought.
We have
rules about wearing hats ... those usually apply because
limiting risk is perceived as being good but most often
because insurance or delegated responsibility
necessitates it.
Think that you don't need to wear a
hat ... maybe not ... only time will tell. Everyone
would be wise to wear a hat ... should you have to? ...
No. Its a judgement thing, where do you draw your line.
Want safety, don't ride. I know a guy who broke his leg
doing dressage, the hat didn't help him and it took over
a year to recover from the injury.
Does that
make me or my site or the people on it objectionable? I
think not, just the people who spout off so
vehemently.
I have to laugh sometimes, there is
nothing more paradoxical than a horse rider hooting at
me from a car on the road for not wearing a hat.
In
Argentina, hardly anyone wears a hat in the working polo
environment. I promise that the riding they do is more
challenging than what most riders here are likely to
have experienced and they are none the worse off ...
they fall off too (and you have to laugh sometimes - and
I am sure that sometimes you need to call the doctor
too) ... in a way I think they are better horse people
for it ... does that mean I advocate riding without a
hat ... NO, but I respect it, and it happens to be a
choice of mine too. I have a hard time sympathising with
their treatment of horses, but they are often better
riders than I will ever be and their horses look and go
beautifully ... and for that I respect them. (New thread
topic again.)
One of the contributors on this list
commented about their experiences of learning to ride
bareback and hatless. Playing with horses is the best
way to learn. I can't disagree.
One of my
favorite of all experiences (and how I miss it ... with
a bitterness you can only imagine), was to ride Bert
bareback. I used to hack out, yes - "shriek", on the
roads and common, hatless and saddleless (but alas no
fag in mouth). The most liberating experience was
galloping on the common with nothing more than a bridle,
on what to be honest was a bit of a tank. I understand
the risk, or at least I think I do ... I will never
truly know unless something happens to which the "told
you so" brigade will cheer. But it's a risk I choose to
take for the reward and pleasure I get from rising and
taking those challenges. Each time I get on a horse I
choose to wear or not wear a hat based on my feeling for
the risks I wish to take and those I think are evident
... and sometimes I wear a hat out of consideration for
the people whose establishments I ride in or over.
People jump
tall buildings, does that mean I think everyone should
try? ... hardly. Does that mean the ones that do
shouldn't? ... hardly!
As a side line, a subject for more
debate I am sure, there is research currently going on
that has demonstrated that the risk of having a fatal
injury in a car has not changed over the years, even
with the advent of seat belts and later air bags. Early
analysis suggests that the human life is dictated by
risk, and in fact risk is constant irrespective of what
we do to minimise it. I don't mention this to justify
not wearing a hat, but it begs an interesting question.
This analysis is not limited to cars or transportation,
buy cleanliness and many other facets of life which we
take for granted and follow so blindly.
There is an
argument that states, and I shan't make it here, that by
riding bareback without a hat on open undulating terrain
on a wild unstoppable (but comfortable) horse I am
actually reducing risk as I am so aware of the
precariousness of my circumstance. - so far I must be
right ... watch
this space for changes to my theory!
The reality
is my site is not a public service message. If it were I
would probably state that people would be advised that
the wearing of a riding hats is more than likely to be
in their better interests, but at the end of they day it
is a personal judgement thing and there are subjective
reasons not to. People who tell you they don't need to
wear a hat probably need to. People who want to wear a
hat are being prudent. Myself, well I usually just
prefer not to. Each to their own.
There is no
end of standards that pictures and stories on my site do
not conform to in terms of BHS (if that is the standard
that finds favor with the extremists amongst us). But
mostly they are happy positive experiences and just look
at them for what they are and enjoy them if you can.
Sadly my
site is just a fun chronicle for people who chose to
enjoy it. For me it gives me a warm feeling to think
that now and hopefully after me and my horses are long
and gone, there may be a testament to the pleasure gave
me and others for as long as the Internet remains
fashionable.
Thanks Kate. I
don't think I said everything I could or should have
said, and at times I am not sure of my own objectivity,
but I try to keep an open mind.
I will do my
very best to continue enjoying my horses, and help them
enjoying the life I offer them ... to this end I have
just imported 300kg of special horse treats from Germany
that the horses just die for ... we ran out a while ago
and they didn't let me forget!
I spend
every day trying to think of new experiences. One of my
favorite recent ones was the trip to Hyde Park at
christmas ...
... I am
sure the hat fanatics would have a field day shooting me
down for riding without a hat ... wait a second ... I
was wearing a hat!
Then there was the riding down
Oxford street on the busyest Saturday before Christmas
...
Now
if that isn't "Dangerous" ... I don't know what is!
... a
fantastic experience which few will share ... the
saddest part is there are a bunch of tourists with some
cool pictures ... and I don't have even 1 to prove it
even happened!
I was
totally disgusted with this thread in the first place
and I felt it wholly unecessary for it to have been
started in the first place.
I thought your site was excellent
and felt quite jealous at the time and effort you had
put into it, you certainly seem to have a love for
horses and should be commended for that.
So sorry you
had to read the drivel on this thread you must have felt
gutted.
Hi Nick Thanks for the reply. I have to say that I enjoy looking
at your pictures, and your horses and facilities are
gorgeous (I am very jealous!!!) You also seem to be
having fun in all the pics, and I love reading about
what you've been up to! I
originally posted a negative reply to this thread, but
later thought about it and realised that the majority of
people who have posted here are totally right and I was
wrong! Although, I think it's
silly and dangerous to ride without a hat, or smoke/suck
lollipops while riding, these are the individual's
decision to make. As you pointed out there is a big
differnce between those who are ignorant and
irresponsible and those who have made an educated
decision. As for insulting
riding position, none of us here are perfect riders and
really have no place to judge each other. This forum
should be a friendly place, where people can post
pictures, without fear of being picked apart over
technique. Horseriding and
ownership is meant to be fun and I think there is a lot
of snobbery in horseriding. As long as you're not
hurting the horse, then I say go for it! Of course people are entitled to
opinions but I wish they would refrain from the personal
insults, Thanks again for
posting, and I hope you continue having fun with your
horses, Horsebabe
What a
self righteous lot you are No score for this post
May 2
2002, 10:24 PM
Of course none of
YOU would ever relax on horseback would you-and whose
business is it whether or not someone smokes whilst
riding. And the horse looks happy and relaxed. As for
the hat-the rider is not competing so its up to her
hether she wears a hat or not.
Re:
What a self righteous lot you are No score for
this post
May 3
2002, 8:55 AM
Good on ya nick
for standing up for what you believe in. So many people
think they are perfect, and the sad fact of life is we
aren't. I wish you, Bertie, and the others well.
Nick - I SALUTE
you mate!! No one should have to
justify thier lifestyle as you have. However, you have
put all this so succinctly and with care and chosen
words, I really hope that the immature and narrowminded
among this site will learn something from you! It is so
true that we have to assess risk at every stage in our
lifes, and those who chose to never risk a thing, or
never try something controversial never really learn or
grow.
Re:
What a self righteous lot you are No score for
this post
May 3
2002, 9:17 AM
well said Nick, I
only just read this thread and I have to say I havent
looked at your site yet. I have photos posted on a web
site and would be devastated if someone publicly
criticised them. I always wear a hat and absolutely
detest smoking anywhere but that isnt the point is it. I
too learnt to ride by playing , lots of bareback riding
often in halters, often no hat and lots of falling off
which didnt do me any harm. As I have got older I have
got more safety concious and have discovered that the
younger generation seem to be fanatically safety
concious. I think it is a shame really cos they are
missing out on years of fun and arent really any more
likely to have a bad acccident if they behaved how most
of us older ones did in our ignorant youth. Mind you now
in my safety aware old age I would probably blast anyone
I saw behaving like that so they cant really win can
they.
I
believe it was not necessary at all for you (or
anyone) No score for this post
May 3
2002, 9:47 AM
to justify such as
riding style and hat wearing and indeed if my forthright
comments provoked such effort albeit with articulate and
well reasoned comment, then I regret that.
However I
remain adament - as an old git who has indeed ridden
with no hat and bareback and no bridle and from time to
time like a sack of potatoes - that smoking on horseback
is quite a different matter.
My opinion is shaped by GENUINE
experience of 1 serious horse injury and 5 more minor -
though absolutely unnecessary and avoidable other ones
that I've personally witnessed.
I remain
firm in the belief that because we are privileged in
working with this most beautiful and sensitive of
animals that we owe it to them to be aware of risks and
to protect them where reasonably practicable - no one
needs to smoke on a horse, my issue is not about smoking
at all - its just about not doing it - in ignorance of
possible consequences - whilst on the back of a fabulous
horse.
Hat, position, riding style all the
rest is in my view just indulgent comment and opinion
and matters not one jot.
I hardly ever come
to this board, for exactly the reasons that some of you
are even discussing!
Most people on here seem really
judgemental, so what she is smoking!! - as long as she
doesn't burn the horse who cares! - I smoke whilst
riding! - OH ER!!! WHAT A CRIME!
I am so incredibly
anti smoking that of course I think smoking on a horse
is a horrendous crime but then I think smoking walking
down the street and puffing it in my face is too and I
am sure if I look hard enough I could find an anti
smoking board I could moan on but I dont think I can be
bothered.
if you want
stupidity.. then I think that those that smoke around
the yard need their bumps felt. I'm talking about near
hay, shavings etc.. or even worse in the stable with the
horse in there........thats stupid and yes I've seen
it!
Re:
Re: Re: Re: get a life! No score for this post
May 3
2002, 5:29 PM
Well said Nick! claps there are small minded
people in the world, why don't we have a huge descussion
on them??? no? oh ok! :-P get over it some of you
please!!
Re:
Re: Re: Re: Re: get a life! No score for this post
May 3
2002, 8:26 PM
Hi Nick Thanks for the reply. I have to say that I enjoy looking
at your pictures, and your horses and facilities are
gorgeous (I am very jealous!!!) You also seem to be
having fun in all the pics, and I love reading about
what you've been up to! I
originally posted a negative reply to this thread, but
later thought about it and realised that the majority of
people who have posted here are totally right and I was
wrong! Although, I think it's
silly and dangerous to ride without a hat, or smoke/suck
lollipops while riding, these are the individual's
decision to make. As you pointed out there is a big
difference between those who are ignorant and
irresponsible and those who have made an educated
decision. As for insulting
riding position, none of us here are perfect riders and
really have no place to judge each other. This forum
should be a friendly place, where people can post
pictures, without fear of being picked apart over
technique. Horseriding and
ownership is meant to be fun and I think there is a lot
of snobbery in horseriding. As long as you're not
hurting the horse, then I say go for it! Of course people are entitled to
opinions but I wish they would refrain from the personal
insults, Thanks again for
posting, and I hope you continue having fun with your
horses, Horsebabe
ITS ME
(YES EVERYONE THROW THOSE TOMATOES!) No score for
this post
May 3
2002, 9:16 PM
Hi
Nick- 1st-
wow wot a long response!! And 2nd- I did also say ur
site is usually very gd but that picture did annoy me,
not because the woman was endangering herself, but
because I TOTALLY disagree with smoking around horses
(that and not wearing a hat). Ok so it is her personal
choice 2 ride without a hat and 2 sit slouched and
all...but y? Y would ne body get on a horse without a
hat? I have been riding 10yrs, yes a lot less than a lot
of u lot but I have had my fair of "sticky" moments, but
I proudly say I never ride without a hat!! Riding is a
dangerous enough sport as it if, and if ur horses r ne
thing like mine then it is that little bit more tricky
at times, so y on earth would u risk a fatal head
injury??
U r all saying how judgemental I
have been in stating this, but surly we r living in an
age where opinions should b expressed no matter wot?
this board certainly seems 2 operate like that. Nick, if
u havent used this board b4 which I doubt u have coz I
havent seen u about, y not check out the other posts.
There is a lot worse!! And ne way- in theory- u r all
judging me on the few points I made here- nobody ere bar
a minority actually know me. (a bit hypocritical I
say).
Another point 2 continue my defense
speech...I do not call myself a text book owner, I do a
lot of things my instructor would kill me about if she
knew (Hope u rnt reading this..) but none of wot I do
involves putting me or my horse at risk. I was fortunate
enough 2 work on a very very very highly thought of
training yard 4 a week while me and my mare were getting
extensive lessons, and I learnt a lot! The main thing
was safety- they were very vigilant and everything was
done properly and with precision so that the risks were
kept minimal. Isnt that the best way??
I dont think
I got carried away- maybe I missed something- but I
thought I was simply stating an opion! I never said this
woman's horses were not generally happy.
I dont care
Nick (thats not meant 2 sound bitchy) about her level of
experience because every1 at all levels can b fantastic
in the showring and then not so gr8 at home.
Nick- U r
the 1 who said not 2 go about judging, but u have done
that by insulting those who follow the text book method.
U seem 2 believe in alternative methods (tell me if Im
wrong) which I do 2 a certain extent but yes my methods
r sometimes more traditional (wearing a hat) despite
being a teenager (ohh yes the dreaded word).
I am not
going 2 take ne more involvment in this thread, Ive said
wot I need 2, this board isnt gd at discussion the
barefoot debate shows that. so yea every1 u can throw ur
tomatoes now **Ducks**. I dont mind coz u r all
entitiled 2 an opinion just remember...So am I.
KAT xox
PS - Nick,
enjoy ur horses, and no Im not some sorta monster just
some1 who has strong opinions- thats healthy!
Re:
ITS ME (YES EVERYONE THROW THOSE
TOMATOES!) Score 5.0
(1 person)
May 3
2002, 9:36 PM
i agree with kat,
smoking round horses is totally UNACCEPTABLE and even
more while riding! some ppl are so stupid they shouldn't
be allowed to ride horses, and without a hat!? that is
just plain CRAZY if she falls off and injures herself
badly, itll serve her right. and yanking the horse's
mouth like that! HUH!
I think a lot of
comments on here are VERY judgemental whether or not the
author meant them to be so. At the end of the day, you
are critising someone else's way of doing things, simply
because that is not the way you do it yourself. People
DO ride without a hat and they are perfectly entitled to
do so. You may not like it, but that's life - accept it.
Why do
some people think that they can impose their morals and
ideals on others? That may be what you do yourself but
others are free to do as they please. Perhaps it's time
to stop being so black and white in taking such
simplistic views and have a little respect and
consideration for other people's ways of doing
things.
Re: I
cant believe this site! No score for this post
May 4
2002, 4:28 PM
I like Nick's
site. I've visited it for a few years now, with
enjoyment. He likes to show his pictures, some are more
candid - like this - than others. So her stirrups are short - she's an
experienced showjumper, that's probably her working
length. She's slouching - is she?
Her back is relaxed, but straight enough. She's not on
the back of the saddle, there's a hand-breadth behind
her. She's yanking the horse
round - well she's turning his head on a long rein (both
horse and rider are relaxing), but the horse is
perfectly content. She has no hat
- well she's experienced, she knows her horse, she knows
the 'risks' when relaxing , who among us has never done
the same in similar circumstances. Just how much
'protection' does a dressage topper give in competition?
Life is dangerous. Most accidents happen within the
home. Nick's is not a 'how to' site. She's smoking. I hope her haystore
is nowhere nearby. Nuff sed.
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